Estate Planning Mistakes to Avoid: Wills, Trusts and Probate Tips for Seniors and Families

Estate Planning Mistakes to Avoid: Wills, Trusts and Probate Tips for Seniors and Families 

Welcome to Senior PrimeTime — where real people and real conversations come together! In Episode 5, host Bonnie Keith and co-host Joyce Robertson (CEO of the Foundation for Senior Services) tackle the often-confusing world of estate planning in an eye-opening conversation with Daniel Van Slyke, Attorney at Law.

Most people overlook one of the most critical steps to securing their legacy — estate planning. But what if you could avoid the chaos and costs of probate, protect your loved ones from unnecessary stress, and ensure your wishes are honored — all by understanding the simple yet powerful tools available? Daniel Van slyke, an estate planning expert, reveals how proactive planning can save your family thousands of dollars and prevent years of legal battles.

In this eye-opening episode, Daniel shares compelling stories from his own practice, including how failing to plan can turn a modest estate into a legal battlefield and how one simple document — a trust — can keep your assets out of court and in your family’s hands. You’ll discover the real reasons people end up in probate, the common pitfalls of DIY estate plans, and how to protect your assets even during periods of incapacity.

 Learn why a will isn’t enough, and how the right combination of legal documents can give you peace of mind, whether you're planning for tomorrow or managing aging parents.

We break down: the difference between wills, trusts, power of attorney, and healthcare directives — and how they work together to safeguard your wishes. Daniel shares surprising insights on beneficiary designations, funding your trust, and selecting the right trustee — including why family isn’t always the best choice. You’ll hear why estate planning isn’t a one-and-done task, but a continuous process that should be reviewed after major life changes like marriage, divorce, or a new grandchild.

Ignoring estate planning can leave your assets vulnerable to costly probate, probate delays, and family disputes that can last for years. But with the right knowledge, you can simplify the process, reduce stress on your loved ones, and ensure your legacy endures exactly as you intend. This episode is perfect for seniors, adult children, or anyone eager to secure their financial future.And don’t worry if estate planning feels overwhelming — Daniel offers actionable steps and common pitfalls to avoid. 

Whether you’re just starting or overdue for a review, this conversation provides the clarity and confidence to take control of your estate today.

Daniel Van Slyke is an experienced estate planning attorney, dedicated to helping families avoid costly probate and plan for both incapacity and legacy. His straightforward approach has helped hundreds protect their assets and family harmony.

If you want to sidestep probate nightmares and build a resilient estate plan tailored to your needs, this episode is your essential guide. Take charge of your future—your peace of mind depends on it. 

In this value-packed episode, we cover:

• The "No Plan" Disaster: What really happens when you die intestate (without a will or trust), and how state intestacy laws, judges, and people you may not know or trust end up making the biggest decisions for your family.
• Wills vs. Trusts: Why a simple will is actually just a piece of paper until a judge validates it, and how a Revocable Living Trust helps your family avoid the public, costly, and time-consuming probate process.
• Celebrity Estate Nightmares: The cautionary tales of Prince (who died with no plan, resulting in 700 people claiming to be heirs), Aretha Franklin (handwritten wills hidden in couch cushions), and James Brown (failing to update his plan after a new marriage and child).
• The Power of Incapacity Planning: Why an Advanced Healthcare Directive and a Durable Power of Attorney for Assets are crucial parts of your "complete and nutritious" estate plan if you are alive but no longer able to make decisions for yourself.
• Avoiding the "Empty Trust": What it means to properly "fund" a trust, and how a simple home refinance can accidentally drain it, leaving your hard-earned assets vulnerable to probate court.
• Fighting Over the Little Things: Why items of purely sentimental value—like a $50 Raggedy Ann doll or old action figures—can tear siblings apart, and how to carefully plan for the disposition of tangible personal property.

Daniel cuts through the legal jargon to give actionable advice on when to immediately review your plan (hint: marriages, divorces, the birth/death of a child, or major changes in assets) and how to thoughtfully choose a successor trustee or professional private fiduciary.

Special Thanks to our Sponsor:  Lily Schweitzer Wealth Management.

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Connect with Us:

• Daniel Van Slyke: iPlanLaw PC | Call: (323) 639-0710 | Email: daniel@iplanlaw.com | Visit: iPlanLaw.com
• Foundation for Senior Services: Call: (855) 836-0807 | Email: info@TheFSS.org | Visit: FoundationForSeniorServices.org

Understanding Estate Planning with Daniel Van Slyke: Protecting Your Legacy

Key Topics Covered:

• Why estate planning is essential to avoid probate and family fights
• The roles of wills, trusts, and pour-over wills in estate management
• How to fund a trust properly and common pitfalls to avoid
• The importance of powers of attorney and healthcare directives
• Choosing a trustee and understanding fiduciary responsibilities
• When and why to review or update your estate plan
• The costs and processes involved in probate in California
• Handling family disputes and personal items that can cause conflicts
• Alternative options like professional fiduciaries and banks for managing estates

Timestamps:

00:00 - Introduction to estate planning and today's guest, Daniel Vanslyck

01:19 - Daniel's background and motivation for focusing on estate planning

03:47 - The importance of having an estate plan to avoid trouble and court costs

05:15 - How assets, like bank accounts, are accessed after death without a plan

06:56 - Benefits and limitations of payable on death accounts in estate planning

07:19 - The role of conservatorships vs powers of attorney during incapacity

08:44 - Managing retirement accounts and Social Security through estate plans

09:23 - Why a will is still necessary even if you have a trust

12:22 - The function of a pour-over will as a backup to your trust

14:00 - Understanding probate and its implications for your estate

15:03 - Costs, timelines, and how probate can complicate estate settlement

16:54 - The danger of intestacy laws when there’s no estate plan

17:33 - How unplanned estates can lead to family conflicts and delays

19:03 - The probate process in detail and associated expenses

20:58 - Why estate planning can save your heirs time and money

22:11 - Funding your trust properly through deeds and account designations

25:37 - Managing personal items and family fights over belongings

29:11 - When to review or update your estate plan

30:53 - Handling blended families and family dynamics in estate planning

34:04 - Choosing trustees and understanding fiduciary duties

36:28 - The benefits of professional fiduciaries versus family members

38:56 - The importance of planning and revisiting your estate strategy regularly

Remember: Proper estate planning can significantly reduce stress, costs, and family disputes. Whether you are just starting or need to update your plan, expert guidance makes all the difference.

Estate Planning, Senior PrimeTime, Senior Services, Probate Court, Revocable Living Trust, Wills and Trusts, Daniel Van Slyke, iPlanLaw, Asset Protection, Intestacy Laws, Advanced Healthcare Directive, Power of Attorney, Wealth Management, Retirement Planning, Successor Trustee, Avoid Probate, Foundation for Senior Services, Family Stewardship, Trust Administration, California Estate Law, Empty Trust, Incapacity Planning, Elder Law, Fiduciary Services

Senior PrimeTime is brought to you by the Foundation for Senior Services and hosted by Bonnie Keith.
Each episode features conversations that help seniors and their families live with purpose, vitality, and confidence in Act Three.

Follow the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, iHeartRadio, or YouTube Music so you never miss an episode.

Learn more:
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Transcript

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Bonnie Keith 0:04

Welcome to Senior Prime Time, where real people and real conversations come together. Hi, I'm Bonnie Keith, Creative Visual Director, Industry Veteran, and your host of Senior Primetime. This podcast is brought to you by the Foundation for Senior Services, and I'm joined today by its co-founder and CEO, Joyce Robertson. Senior Primetime brings you conversations with certified specialists and trusted partners of the Foundation, focused on the topics that matter most to seniors. Today, in episode 5, we are tackling the often confusing world of estate planning in an eye-opening conversation with Daniel Vanslide, Attorney at Law. We'll cut through the legal jargon and talk about how planning ahead can help protect your family, your legacy, and your peace of mind before a crisis happens. But before we begin, we want to give a special thank you to today's episode sponsor, Lily Schweitzer Wealth Management. You'll get personalized financial planning, investment management, and retirement strategies built just for you. And with that, let's get started. Welcome, Joyce Robertson and Daniel Van Slick. It's wonderful to have you both with us today. So let's get right into it. Daniel, what inspired you to focus your legal practice on estate planning?

Daniel Van Slyke 1:31

When I started my legal practice, I was in the litigation department of a firm in Dallas Fort Worth. So I'm I'm licensed in Dallas, well, that is Texas to practice law as well as in California. And I wound up with what they called the dead person files. So if there was anybody dead, they gave me the file. So dead people have a bad habit of not paying their bills, especially if they didn't plan ahead. And so I wound up with a huge caseload of basically files involving lawsuits because somebody had died and debts weren't being paid. And over 400 of those. So that after doing all that litigation, and I didn't, by the way, I didn't mind it at all. I kind of enjoyed it because I would step into these situations where there were family members who had no idea what was going on, didn't understand the probate system. A lot of that litigation was in probate courts. And I found that I could actually explain it to them, make them feel a lot better, even though I would, I wasn't necessarily representing their interests. I would tell them that when I spoke with them, whose interests I was representing. But then I would explain to them what's going on and where they are in the process and what to expect. So I found that I really enjoyed working with the families. I also found that I had developed an incredible knowledge of what happens when things go wrong and how many ways there are to fail to plan. Because as we as we say in estate planning, failure to plan is planning to fail because your estate will be a mess. Somebody, somebody, unless all you have is a little, you know, cart full of stuff that you're pushing around the streets of LA, somebody's gonna have to come and clean up your mess at some point. And so um I really decided that I would serve people better by helping them to avoid the whole probate process. And so I made a very, uh, very deliberate shift, and it coincided with a move to California. So I made a very deliberate shift from Texas to California and from probate litigation to the estate planning side of things because I much prefer to help people avoid trouble and I feel better about that than and I give more value, to be honest with you, doing that because the expense of an estate plan is a fraction of the expense of a probate proceeding.

Bonnie Keith 3:48

Got it. What happens if people either don't have an estate plan or they become incapacitated or they pass away? Why why do people need an estate plan?

Daniel Van Slyke 3:57

Yes, those are great questions. So the biggest mistake, I think you you kind of answered your own question. It's not planning. Um, and doing no planning is pretty much a guarantee that you're gonna have trouble when you're gone. So even those pesky little bank accounts, you think, well, there's not much money in them, etc. I can't tell you the number of times I've had calls from people and they've told me, you know, mom or dad who's gone now had this bank account, or maybe they had a business and the business had a little bank account. We need to access those funds. Maybe there's 15,000, maybe there's 20,000, and the bank is saying, uh, we're not even going to give you information about the accounts. And the banks are very tight about information. And I know they some people will say there's this thing called a small estate affidavit, which is supposed to work. That doesn't mean that the banks will necessarily accept it or that you'll even know about the bank accounts. So, I mean, a lot of times somebody dies, you don't even know where their money is. So those, those, even those little bank accounts, people will sometimes come to me and I'll have to explain to them that it it just might be more expensive to go to the court and get an order allowing you to access that account than the value of the account itself. So you might be leaving money on the table, in which case, what happens? It sits in the bank for a couple of years and the bank gives it over to the estate, their unclaimed funds, and then eventually it goes to the state.

Bonnie Keith 5:15

Then then then I have a question. Can't you uh uh designate with the banks a beneficiary uh where it doesn't have to go in into a trust and then they can access it because their names are basically on the on the uh bank accounts?

Daniel Van Slyke 5:29

Yes, you can. You can do that with some types of accounts. Not every type of account allows uh payable on death beneficiary designation, and that's what you call extra probate. In other words, if an account has a beneficiary, then it goes according to the beneficiary designation with the bank, it doesn't have to go through probate. So though those extra probate transfers can be nice. So, but again, not every bank account allows that. So it's very particular kinds of bank accounts. They'll be called something like T O D or P O D. So the T O D is transferable on death or transfer on death, and the POD is payable on death. So if you have a T O D or P O D, it'll work great when you're dead. Now, when I'm estate planning, I'm not just planning for when you're dead, because there may be a period, and as a matter of fact, if if you live over 50 years, you very likely will go through a period, which may be a lengthy period, where you are here, but you're not able to manage your affairs.

Speaker 3 6:32

Right.

Daniel Van Slyke 6:33

So the payable on death or the transferable on death, again, they're great if all you're worried about is somebody having an easy time when you die. But if you're going to go through a period of incapacity, that doesn't help you at all. So you're the people that you would like to be take helping you can't necessarily access those accounts, even if they're the beneficiaries of the accounts when you die. Got it. That's the shortcoming of the POD. But for you know, for probate avoidance, it's gonna help you avoid probate. But do keep in mind that a conservatorship is a type of probate. So what's a conservatorship? That's if that yeah, that's when you're incapacitated and somebody needs to take care of you, somebody needs to take care of your of your assets and pay your bills, just pay your bills, and nobody has that authority, so or people are fighting over who gets to do it. So then it goes that goes to the probate court too. That's called a conservatorship or sometimes a guardianship. There there are technical differences, but different states use them differently.

Bonnie Keith 7:32

And isn't that why you have power of attorney? So can you explain the different parts of what a trust does to help protect you in times of both incapacity and eventually, you know, your passing?

Daniel Van Slyke 7:44

Yeah, powers of attorney can help with that too. So powers of attorney are for, and and when I do an estate plan, I will include powers of attorney. Now, what's a power of attorney? That is a document that only works while you're alive. Okay, so table on death is only useful when you're dead. The power of attorney is only useful when you're alive. So with the power of attorney, you designate somebody to be able to manage your assets in general if you're here but incapacitated. They can be used for other purposes too. Say you're traveling in Europe, but you're trying to buy a property and in the United States, that's another place where you might use a power of attorney. But in estate planning, we generally have a power of attorney that enables, kicks in and becomes effective when you are incapacitated. And now, why do I include that with a trust? Because there are some assets that don't go in trusts. For example, your retirement plans. Any any retirement plan that falls under the this federal law called ERISA, which is all about retirement plans, is going to be transferable into a trust. So that includes your 401k, most people's IRAs, things of that nature. A trust can't own them. Power of attorney can allow the person that you trust to manage those assets while you're here, but you're not able to manage them to yourself. Social Security is another thing. You don't really put your social security benefits into a trust, but what if somebody needs to talk to Social Security on your behalf? Again, powers of attorney would kick in there.

Bonnie Keith 9:12

Then I want to get into wills because that's a whole other confusing thing, like, well, I have a will. Why do I need a trust? Or I I wrote down a thing on I hear some people writing like sticky notes and sticking it in their, you know, underwear drawer.

Daniel Van Slyke 9:28

Sticky notes are, yeah, they're they're great for estate planning. I've seen it and oh no. Yeah, it's like, you know, grandma goes around the house and she puts in this piece of furniture and that jewelry. It's like this goes to Todd and this goes to Sue. No way. Yeah, peep people have done it. And then the problem with that, of course, is the first person in there can just like, oh wait, you know, say Todd enters first. I don't really, I'm gonna switch these. I don't or you know, they fall off or the house, or worse yet, they didn't she didn't, grandma didn't plan for the house, and by the time anybody gains access to it, I'll you know, it's just a big mess. So, but let's back up and talk about the other documents of your your complete. Does anybody remember those those cereal commercials? Like this is part of your complete and nutritious practice. Frosted coated sugar bombs, and then they're complete and nutritious when you have like eggs and milk and and fruit with them, I guess. So complete a complete and uh you know beneficial estate plan will also include your health care documents. What are those? A healthcare power of attorney or an advanced healthcare directive in Kelly, California will allow you to name somebody to take uh just make decisions for your care in the event that you're unable to do so. Right. And that could happen at any time. Uh it if you go in for surgery, if you're in an accident, whatever, you really should have these. Even when your kid turns 18, to be honest with you, you should have those for your child because once they're 18, you don't presumptively have the right to make any decisions for them. So I I advise that even for when when you have a child that's just just turned of age. So what do you do? Uh you can name in there as well, not just who you trust to make the decisions, because maybe you know one kid just wants to pull the plug and get his inheritance, but the other actually cares about you. And I see this, by the way, in estate planning. So you obviously don't want the one that just wants to pull the plug and get the inheritance to make your healthcare decisions and have an equal share in that. I mean, maybe you do, uh, but most likely you don't. The healthcare uh directive makes sure that the one that you trust to make the right decisions for the right reasons is the one who actually is empowered to make those decisions. Health, the hospitals love those, the doctors love those, everybody loves those. So I always make that part of the estate plan. I walk you through some of the options you you have in the in the form that the state gives you, and then you give them to your doctor. Let's say you belong to Kaiser or something like that. You they're all scanned into your system, and and they'll be um everybody who is is working on your healthcare will be able to see that you've named certain people to make those decisions. So the healthcare documents are important, and again, that's why you're alive, but you're not well, because you don't want to have like a Terry Chavo instance where people are fighting in the courts over who gets to make the decision for you. You can decide that. And then the will. Now let's get to the will. Do you need a do you need a will if you have a trust? Do you need one? I prepare one as a backup. Okay. And why, you might ask. Because the trust only controls what's in the trust. So let's say that, let's say you go to Vegas, you've got this beautiful trust, everything is in the trust, your home, your bank accounts, you've set it up perfectly. So the person that you really know and trust is gonna is gonna be in charge of things. You're gonna leave it to your beneficiaries in the best way possible. You've really thought this through and planned it out. You go to Vegas and you win a million dollars and you die of a heart attack. So, what happens to your million dollars? Well, guess what? You never put those in the trust. So you have a million dollars that didn't get put in the trust. Now, what happens if you if you don't have a will? I mean, either way, the million dollars is going to go to probate and a probate court decides what happens to it. Without a will, it's gonna be intestacy, which means the state law and the judge decide who gets that money and who gets to be in charge of it in the whole nine yards. So you avoid that possibility when you have a what I call a pour over will. So the pour over will goes with the trust. It says that if there's something that should have been in the trust, but didn't get put in the trust, I want to put it into the trust. So it's a backup. So if you if you wind up with that, you know, win winning that lottery and then dying of a heart attack, it'll get the money in the trust so it goes the way you want it instead of by intestacy. So a complete, remember that complete nutritious estate plan, it's going to include a will and a trust. And the will is a pour over or backup. Pour over. I I've heard that.

Speaker 2 13:58

I didn't understand exactly what it meant.

Speaker 14:00

Um yeah, it's like it's like you have a glass, you know, you have another glass because I have coffee in one hand and water in the other all day long. So what you do is let's say here's your million dollars that you won in the lotto, but it never got put in your trust, which is where everything should be. So then what you're gonna do is you're gonna pour that into the trust. That's why we call it a pour over will. Uh you don't want that. I mean, that's not ideal because then you've got a probate proceeding and the million dollars goes through probate.

Speaker 2 14:26

So even with the will, it's it it's something's in the will, it goes to probate.

Speaker 14:31

Yes. Many people don't understand that. A will is just a piece of paper. I won't sit here on my desk. It is nothing until a judge admits it to probate and appoints him. It's just a piece of paper. You can take it to the bank and they'll say, Where's the court order? Nobody cares about your will until a judge admits it to probate.

Speaker 2 14:52

Okay, and now that you keep talking probate, probate, probate's a big thing. Yes. In total plain English, so that we all understand what is probate and why.

Speaker 15:03

Money, time, uncertainty, stress. So those are a few of the reasons. But what is probate? It is at heart, it's a court proceeding. I mean, it's a lawsuit of sorts, but you don't necessarily have a defendant, right? Um so, but it's a court proceeding. And in the court proceeding, the judge has to decide who is going to receive what. And the judge bases that decision upon the assets in the estate, their characterization, and the laws governing what you call intestacy in some cases. So, intestacy, let's say you die without a plan. You don't even have a will. If you have a will, you're testate. If you don't have a will, you're intestate. Either way, you're going to probate court. And either way, the judge is going to decide who's in charge and what they receive. Now, if you have a good will and nobody's fighting it, then he's gonna admit the will to probate and it'll be determining what happens. But without even the will, I'll give you an instance. I'll give you an instance right now. A fellow died, lived in Pasadena, had a house in his name. No estate plan, meaning no will, no children, and he wasn't married. So when you add those facts, it gets pretty complicated pretty quickly. His parents are deceased, so it would, it might go to his parents. His parents are deceased, so then it might go to his siblings. But wait a minute, a lot of his siblings, or maybe all of his disciplines are deceased. So we're still working on this, but right now we've found 27 heirs.

Speaker 2 16:26

And where do these heirs come from? How do you find these heirs?

Speaker 16:30

Yeah, I mean, we have to do we do searches for um, you know, sometimes a private investigator, sometimes a genealogist, sometimes just all somebody who really knows how to how to look up databases and find names and numbers. So we found 27 um so far. And now keep in mind that this this property, once it's sold, it has to be distributed to all those people. I mean, not nobody's really gonna get much. Um, but we call them laughing heirs because they didn't, you know, they didn't know you well enough to cry about your death, but they're gonna receive a check in the mail one day. Those are the laughing heirs. Why? Because you didn't actually plan. If you had planned, you could have made it a lot easier. And the few people that really knew you and cared about it enough to contact me and ask me to do this probate, they would be having a much easier time with a lot less uncertainty. Yeah. So that's what happens when you don't plan. It goes to probate, intestacy, which is the state's laws for determining who inherits your assets when you when you're gone, kick in, and it can wind up being a whole lot of people that receive a very little bit of your estate.

Speaker 1 17:33

Regarding the cost of probate, is it based on the amount of what is in the estate or or what would have been in the estate?

Speaker 17:42

Yes, it's it's based upon what's in the estate. So let's it in this is in California, it's called a statutory fee. So there's a statutory probate fee in California. And the it the way it works is a percentage, but it's it's kind of like your like your income tax, right? So it's tiered. So the it's four percent of the first hundred thousand, three percent of the next hundred thousand, two percent of the next eight hundred thousand, one percent of the next nine million, point five percent of the next fifteen million. So, and then over that the the court actually decides uh on the fees. Now, these are the fees you you want to keep in mind that these fees are paid both to the attorney and to the administrator. So those are it's the same fee that gets paid twice. So if you just have a million dollar estate, which in you know in LA means you you own a modest home, somewhere not close to any really desirable area, um, that's 20 that the fee winds up being $23,000 for the attorney. And then when you have an administrator, so this this one that I'm looking at, for example, the one I was just talking about, we know of a of a condo in Pasadena that might be worth a million. So that's gonna be $23,000 to the attorney. That's me, $23,000 to the administrator, because you can't you've got to have an administrator that's gonna get paid for this. I don't think the court would appoint any any relative. So that's a total of $46,000.

Speaker 3 19:12

Wow.

Speaker 19:13

Now I could have done this, this guy's this guy's estate plan for a very small part of that. So he would have avoided all that. He would have had happy, happier heirs that know what's going on, and uh there's a possibility also when probate is public. So how does it work? We've got to find all these people, we have to list them all. We have to list what we what we know about what is in his estate, and then we have to file it with the court. The court, after three or four months, might the LA courts are very busy, they're very backed up. It takes at least three months to get a hearing. And then if they admit, if they appoint an administrator, then the administrator's got to start gathering assets, et cetera, et cetera. Then he has to file an inventory, then he has to so there are all these steps to go through. And the real dangerous thing is let's say, as in this case, it's so often, uh, there's a mortgage on the house or the condo. So let's say the mortgage is worth a million dollars and you've got no estate plan, and now, again, dead people don't tend to pay their bills. So now this now this mortgage is going into foreclosure, and you now are racing against the clock to try to get an appointment from the probate court. So you have somebody with authority to even talk to the mortgage company and market the property for sale before all the equity is gone. So there's another thing that could happen that that home you loved and lived in for 40, 50 years could wind up being auctioned because you uh the mortgage company or maybe somebody else foreclosed. Maybe it was the HOA or the the taxing authorities because you've got debts that aren't being paid because nobody has authority to deal with it. Yeah. So that's that's the nightmare. But on the other hand, people will come to me and they'll say, Well, I don't think I need an estate plan. I'll say, Okay, that's fine. I'll make more money when you're dead only for probate. Yeah. But I will now. I it's it's but I do, I much, I feel a lot better about helping people, you know, plan ahead than I do about doing the probates. I do the probates because you if you're doing estate planning long enough, people come to you and they're like, Well, you did mom's estate plan, now mom's gone. Those don't tend to be probates unless, again, something didn't get put in the trust that should have been put in the trust. But the trust administration, there is some trust administration to do, but it's again, it's not even going to be half the cost of a probate.

Speaker 2 21:29

And and you just mentioned something about stuff not being put into the trust because you you talk about that an empty trust or funding a trust. Could you explain what that means and why a trust can actually fail if you don't do some of the stuff?

Speaker 21:42

Yes. So what is a trust? A trust a trust is a relationship where you're taking you're taking assets and you're giving them to the trustee to take care of for the reasons that you indicate. So it's it's it's kind of a relationship. So who's the trustee? The trustee, your typical Revocable living trust. So mainly to avoid probate, make sure things go smoothly if you become incapacitated. That typical revo it trust is a revocable living trust, meaning that you can change it anytime. So let's say Bonnie Keith sets up the Bonnie Keith Revocable Living Trust. There are three major roles in a trust. And you and your revocable living trust, when you first set it up, you are in all three roles. So the first is the grantor. You're the grantor because your assets go into the trust. Second is the trustee. The trustee is in charge of things. You are the trustee because you're in charge of your revocable living trust when you first put it together. And third is the beneficiary. That's the person who benefits from the assets in the trust. And again, for you, that's your everything. When you first set up your revocable living trust, you are the grantor, your assets go in, you're the trustee, you're in charge. And then you're the beneficiary, it's for your benefit. Now, there may come a day when you're still around, but you're not well enough to take care of your own assets anymore. So now somebody steps in to become your trustee. Now the stuff that went in there is still yours. You're still the grantor. You're still the beneficiary, but now somebody else whom you trust to be in charge of your assets, if you're alive but not well, is taking care of business for you. Now then the third phase is when you're pet when you pass that point. Again, you're still the grantor. So it's still your assets that went in there. You're still the, you're still the um, always going to be the grantor. Now, you're no longer the trustee because you're gone. So the person you trust to take care of your assets is is now in charge. And you're no longer the beneficiary because you're gone. So the people that you designated to be your beneficiaries now get to benefit from the assets in the trust. The grantor's assets that are controlled by the trust, though, are only the assets that the grantor puts into the trust. So when you come to me for a trust, let's say it's your first revocable living trust, you've never had one before, I'm gonna ask you, what are your assets? Why do I ask that? Is it because I I like to pry into people's lives? I mean, as fun as that is, that's really not the reason. Uh, the reason is because I can't help you plan for assets if I don't know about them. So I need to review everything. So I'm gonna ask you about your real property, I'm gonna ask you about your bank accounts, and then I'm gonna tell you what needs to go in the trust. And of those things that can't go into the trust, say you have a 401k, uh, say you have an S-corp, you know, certain types of businesses, I'm gonna advise you on how to plan for the succession of those as well. If you don't put something into the trust, though, the trust doesn't control it. So I will take care of your house. If you come to me and you have a house, I'm gonna prepare a grant deed. That grant deed is basically gonna say, right now you own it as Bonnie Keith, but now once you sign that grant deed and I record it with the county, you will own your home as Bonnie Keith trustee of the Bonnie Keith Revocable Living Trust. That's how you fund it. If you never do that and it's still in your own name, the trust doesn't control. That's the funding. And it has to be done for bank accounts too. You go from owning it as Bonnie Keith to owning it as Bonnie Keith, trustee of the Bonnie Keith Revocable Living Trust. That's how you fund them. No funding, the trust doesn't control. Now, sometimes people will refinance their house or they'll do something funky with their deeds. And then if they come to me to review their trust, I can catch that and I can say, your home's not in the trust, let's get it back in the trust. But if not, let's say they they die like that, well, now their house is probably going to go to probate. In LA, it's most likely going to go to probate. There are these little rules for houses. Maybe you can have an expedited proceeding if it's worth under a certain amount. But I mean, that applies to pretty much nothing in LA unless you live in one of those tiny homes, which is still worth something in LA.

Speaker 2 25:39

So um, but even even with an estate plan in place, family fights can occur. So and strangely, like you were talking about the little sticky notes on the couch and stuff, personal items can sometimes cause bigger fights than money. That this is new to me. So Yes. Do you have any examples of that? Or like any stories?

Speaker 26:00

Yeah, there there are a lot of examples of that. The thing is, it's like family law. In some ways, probate is like family law. It can be very emotional. Sometimes the people involved are not they're not thinking in terms of economics or in terms of business. They're thinking, I didn't get the little red wagon when we were eight, and that's not fair. And I've always been jealous and angry, and you've always been mom's favorite, and now you're trying to rub it in, and I'm not gonna let you do that anymore. And I'm not making this up. I mean, I have heard clients report to me that they've they've heard similar things from their siblings. So you will you will have a lot of situations in which even siblings, even your you're you know, you grew up around the same table with these people, are giving you the hardest time possible. Um, here's the problem with the probate. If that happens in probate court and they contest, it's gonna get really expensive really fast, it's gonna slow everything down. And good luck stopping that foreclosure or something like that if it's if it's pending, because it's just gonna be really difficult to get anything done and the price is going to add up really quickly. So now there are there are famous examples of this too. Like Robin Williams, he had, if you look up his probate proceeding, it's one of those that kind of went on for a while. He had a pretty good estate plan, but he actually didn't account for like the things that you wouldn't think really valuable, like action figure collections and I think maybe bicycles and things like that. I mean, compared to an estate that's worth millions, it's like small potatoes. But if you've got, if when you die, your wife is not the mother of any of your kids, that kind of is a sign that something might go wrong. Uh so be sure you've buttoned up everything. If you know you have a kid that really wants that raggedy and doll or is emotionally attached to it, then you need to take care of that raggedy and doll so you don't have them spending thousands and thousands of dollars, maybe tens of thousands of dollars in court over a raggedy and doll that you couldn't get five bucks for at a garage sale. And it does happen. Now, sometimes the personal property is valuable. Like you may have a work, I don't know, maybe you have a monet hanging in your living room. And that's pretty valuable, right? And there's a lot of estate planning around fine art and things like that that kind of they they fluctuate in value. In fact, they're difficult like that, that you can do neat track tax tricks with them. But most people are gonna be don't have that in their estate. What they have in their estate is little items that some people have attached, uh, to which some people have attached very large emotional value. Unbelievable. Stuff in your house, by the way, is not really worth very much. I know you probably spent twenty, thirty thousand dollars accumulating the junk in your house, but the average garage sale is gonna get maybe three, four, or five thousand. Right. So it's not as valuable as we think it is. I mean, once that stuff is used, it's you're done. Nobody, nobody really cares about it. But still, you might have people fighting over it, and you might have you might have relatives looking on and say, you should that I know that's worth more than that. You could have sold that for more. So you need to take care of those things.

Speaker 2 28:57

Wow. So let's say someone does have an estate plan, how often should they review it or update it? And in particular, what life changes should trigger an immediate review of an estate plan?

Speaker 29:11

Yes. Marriage or divorce, those are that should be immediate review. Immediate review. Because once that happens, if you didn't actually plan it and prepare for it or or immediately after, then the state has its its idea about what's happening. And it may not be your idea. And there are some things and some places that'll go to your ex if you still have your ex as a beneficiary, like say on a bank account or something like that. I mean, you you need to revisit the whole plan, not just your trust. And that's what I do with people. So let's visit the whole plan. Another one is birth of a child, if you didn't have a child, or death of a child. That could have a big impact in your plan, depending on what the child was receiving, what roles the child was playing. And uh, when you live long enough, your kids, you know, they they pass before you, which reminds me of this story. I don't know if you've heard it. So there's there's a judge, he's in the probate court, and these two people come. Actually, it's the family law court, 90 years old. They are 90 years old, and they come in and they want a divorce, and the family law judge looks at him and he says, You want a divorce? You've been married for 70 years. Why in the world do you want a divorce now? And the old fellow says, Well, we were waiting for the kids to die. Oh my gosh. There you go. Oh my goodness, Daniel. It happens, it happens, but there's a lot of emotional value over little things. There's a lot of you really need to plan when you have mixed families. There are more and more mixed families. That's huge. And when I that's why when I when somebody comes to me, I ask them, okay, so tell me about your children, tell me about your family. Do you have any other children? Whenever a married couple comes to me, I always ask that, you know, it's time to come clean. Because if you don't tell me now and I don't plan for it, that person, again, if if it doesn't look like you know them and you put together an estate plan not mentioning that person, then that person has certain rights under the law that you could have avoided. So I'm gonna look at how to avoid the fights. That doesn't mean you can always avoid the fights, but really there's a lot of things you can anticipate in advance and you can avoid them. Like just give the raggedy and doll to the kid now. Like, why leave it in your garage so they can fight about it later if you know that one wants it, for example. Or you can or you can actually dispose of the personal property and in writing. We can determine where it goes, who gets what. So I I really really want to bring out the family dynamics, the relationships, who gets along well, who hates whom, you know, things of that nature. And that will that will help to avoid fighting, whether you have a probate proceeding or whether you have a which which hopefully you won't, if you planned with me and visited it and you've come back to update it. But yeah, getting back to the updating questions marriage, divorce, birth of a child, death of a child, another one is a big change in your estate. So say you suddenly you sell your business for millions, you need to do some more planning. Uh, or say you were worth millions and now you, you know, you lost it all. Uh again, you need to do some planning because tax planning is traditionally a very important part of estate planning. It's a little less so right now because most people's estates are not going to be taxed by an estate tax. So as of 2026, you have to have more than 15 million in your estate per person before it gets a federal estate tax. You know, most people don't have that. But let's say all of a sudden you're above that threshold or you were above it and you've gone below it, your your planning, your estate planning is going to be different because there's a lot of tax issues that go into some types of estate planning. So big increase or a big decrease in the size of your estate, that's an important thing. Another important thing is a big change in the law. So that increase, that exemption, 15 million, is a big change in the law. If you haven't had your trust reviewed in the last 10 years or 15, I would definitely, definitely, it's time. Because you may have it like if you're a married couple, say, and your trust was done in the early 2000s or the 1990s, uh, then you probably have a trust split, which means when one of you dies, um, the trust splits. To make it simple, I'll say into the A trust and the B trust. So the A is the alive spouses and the B is the buried spouses. Uh and now there are limits on what the living trust the living spouse can do with the B trust. And it files its own tax return, and it can be a big pain in the butt. And if you ignore it, it can be a bigger pain in the butt down the line. So if you have not had your plan reviewed in 15 plus years, you definitely need to do it because there have been big changes in the law. And that tax planning that looked really good in the early 2000s or the late 1990s, is now just a useless pain in the in the behind.

Speaker 2 33:50

Wow. Interesting, Daniel.

Speaker 1 33:51

Can you touch on the trustee and choosing your trustee? And if you don't have a family member that might be able to do that, what is a fiduciary? Um, and tell us how that would work.

Speaker 34:04

Yeah, well, that's a really good question, Joyce. I'm I'm happy you brought that up because one of the one of the big questions that people have when they're putting together a trust is well, I have three children, right? One is, I don't know, he's on drugs and on the streets. This is more common than you might think. I've had it with uh a number of clients. And another is a successful lawyer, but he never talks to me and he lives in a different state. And then there's the one that lives with, you know, next door, you know, who's the bet who should I choose? That's not that's like the youngest one. Who do I choose? And so you you have to realize that sometimes the children get jealous. They're like, why'd mom choose you as trustee instead of me? And when that happens, it can cause resentment and fighting, which I'm experiencing in one of my trust administrations. Again, not a trust I set up, but that uh there is there is the the there is some fighting there because the siblings are very jealous. Actually, there are a couple of them that I'm working on that fall in that category. And there's really no reason for it. But I like to tell people that it's more of if you don't get named as trustee, that's like dodging a bullet. Like you, you're the lucky one because being a trustee is a lot of work. And if you've got siblings that are that are harassing you, it's a lot of stress too. Um, I mean, it can cause you a lot of of consternation. In fact, when everybody gets along, that's great. Uh, remember, not everybody gets along when somebody dies, and if they never got along, you can be guaranteed they're not going to get along when you're gone. So, whatever you do, don't force like siblings who hate each other to be co-trustees. That is a recipe for disaster. Also seeing that. Again, I like to add it's not a trust I planned. Those things happen for the most part. I rarely, rarely say go ahead with the co-trustees. Most of the time, if any of my clients do it, it's a it's against my advice. The client decides because it is your trust, whatever you want to do. Co-trustees, generally not a good idea. So there is an option, and in California, it's a really good, somewhat economical option, which is to appoint a professional private fiduciary. So that is a person who is licensed by the state of California to take care of business for you if you're unable to take care of business for yourself. And those people can be named as administrators in probate court. I work with some in that capacity. They can also be named as successor trustees in your trust. And I will, with some regularity, I'll put them into trusts because they they're professional, they're not family members, so they're not gonna get emotionally involved. They're gonna follow your instructions, they're gonna dot the I's, cross the T's, file the tax returns, make sure everything gets well done the way it should be. And there's just not gonna be the same, there's you're not gonna have the emotional reaction, far less fraud. When you look at all the cases and that go to court, now remember, trusts and go to court when something goes wrong, right? People are fighting. So when you look at a lot of these cases, it's somebody's accusing somebody else of mismanaging the trust, of stealing money from the trust, things like that. It's always family members. There's one instance I know of where there were some shady things going on with a fiduciary, but for the most part, fiduciaries don't want to lose their license, right? I mean, that's their livelihood. They are they have to go through constant training. They do they're rep they're reputation based. You know, if I hear a trustee has cheated somebody, I'm not gonna recommend that trustee to anybody. I'm gonna work with ones I know they that they know what they're doing. They're very cooperative, they're very easy to work with. So trustees are a great option that you have here in California. They're not in every state. There are a few other states that have licensed professional fiduciaries like that. In every state, a bank can serve. Some people used to name banks. A lot of people are not happy with that arrangement because the banks are even more careful about dotting the I's and crossing the T's. Everything is going to take a while. It'll all be done well. But the other thing is the banks are going to require a minimum amount in your state. So for a lot of banks, it'll be like 5 million, 8 million, 9 million, whatever, if you don't have that much. And sometimes it's liquid assets. So, in other words, bank accounts, brokerage accounts, things like that. If you get maybe you have 9 million in real property, they don't want to deal with that. So the banks and their fees might be a little higher, their fees will almost certainly be a little higher. Uh, but banks will do a great job, be a little impersonal, only available to those with a lot of money. And then there are also professional trustee companies, which are going to be somewhere between the fiduciary and the bank when it comes to that. They're more in other states than in California. But I think the fiduciaries for the for the common person who needs a trust to make sure things go well in possible incapacity, and then when they die, who does not have a huge taxable state? I think the professional private fiduciary is a really, really good option. By the way, that was not that was that was not endorsed by any particular professional private fiduciary. I do not get paid for that.

Speaker 2 38:48

What words of of wisdom can you leave our listeners or or viewers from everything that has been discussed today? Well, I'll give you one word.

Speaker 38:58

Plan. Yes, just plan. If you haven't planned, you need to plan. If you haven't looked at your plan in a while, you should relook at your plan. But you got to plan. I mean, my firm is I Plan Law PC, because I really focus on the planning. If you plan ahead, you can avoid a lot of trouble. You might be able to avoid fighting. Uh, you'll definitely make things smoother for yourself if you become incapacitated for your loved ones when you're gone. Just plan. And again, if you haven't, if you've never actually prepared an estate plan, you really need to do it. Especially if you live in in, let's say you live in LA, uh, you don't have an estate plan, you need an estate plan. If you have a house, you absolutely need an estate plan. Any kind of significant assets, you absolutely need an estate plan. And again, there are other things you can do, but you really want the most complete planning possible. Not only to avoid the the delay and the cost of the probate, but also just to make things a lot smoother, a lot clearer for your loved ones when you're gone. So plan.

Speaker 2 39:57

Thank thank you, Daniel. And for those who feel overwhelmed, just contact Daniel. Just it's a phone call. And to get your questions answered, all of Daniel's information to contact him will be in the description in the show notes of both the podcast, the audio podcast, and any of the videos that we're doing. So easy to reach Daniel. He's a nice guy and an amazing attorney. And Daniel, I thank you so much for your time. I I know how priceless that is, and for your information and for your expertise. It means the world to me that you're able to join me and Joyce today on senior prime time. And Joyce, any last words?

Speaker 1 40:33

Well, I just thank you for listening. And I know that you can come to the Foundation for Senior Services anytime. And we make sure that we have vetted certified specialists at all levels of need. And Daniel, as well as some of our other attorneys in the organization and different service regions, are there to help you at any time. So don't hesitate to call Daniel. Don't hesitate to call the foundation.

Speaker 2 40:54

And again, the foundation's information, the Foundation for Senior Services, is also in the description in the show notes everywhere.

Speaker 41:00

Yeah, that foundation is wonderful. Really appreciate all your work on it, uh, Joyce and Bonnie, and thank you for having me here today. It's been a pleasure.

Speaker 2 41:09

Fantastic. And with that, everybody, we say take care, have a wonderful day. Contact Daniel if you need to have get any information about estate planning. And with that, this is Senior Primetime. Catch you next time. What a fantastic conversation today. I know I have learned so much, and I hope you have as well. Thank you again to our guest, Daniel Vanslik, Attorney at Law, for sharing his time, knowledge, and insight with us. Are you ready to feel confident about your financial future? Whether you're planning for retirement or growing long-term wealth, Lily Schweitzer Wealth Management is here to guide you every step of the way. You can find Lily's contact information in both the show notes and description. Thank you again, Lily, for supporting Senior Primetime and helping us bring trusted conversations and valuable resources to our listeners. Senior Prime Time is brought to you by the Foundation for Senior Services. I'm Bonnie Keith, along with Joyce Robertson, and we thank you for listening. Remember, these years can be your true prime time when you have the right information, the right support, and the confidence to plan ahead. We'll see you next time on Senior Primetime, where real people and real conversations come together.